What is Salvation? Susan Dugan and Bruce Rawles discuss

particular what is salvation in the second part of the workbook of A Course In Miracles and a great topic that

Susan’s been covering in her excellent classes on Tuesday evenings and um so yeah very timely and all always was

timely because it’s what we all need isn’t it and um but we think we need

anyway yeah yeah yeah exactly exact so anyway welcome thank you for being here once again and I always enjoy our

conversations thank you for having me um I enjoy them too so yeah I mean we have

been covering this in the class that I teach um but really as a way of

just you know before we got started Bruce and I were talking about how it’s a synonym really for forgiveness much

like um the word atonement is sometimes used interchangeably with that with the word forgiveness um meaning that it’s a

correct you know the in truth it’s a correction that we don’t really need salvation from

anything because the whole idea that we need salvation is predicated on the

false belief that separation was real which it isn’t so as usual the

course speaks sort of out of both sides of its mouth Jesus seems to about this

topic but um but really it’s it’s you know um the idea of of covering this in

my class was about trying to look at where trying to become more conscious

and Vigilant about noticing and looking at where we all the all the things that

we think will bring us salvation as personal selves and you know what

how we pursue um the substitutes for the you know the wholeness that we

are and um the love that we are all of our special relationships all of our Idols all of our magic all of the things

that we are mindlessly sort of engaged in that to keep us from really

going back to the mind and looking with the part of our mind that knows that

that the you know that the um the separation that from which the idea that

we needed salvation from P from punishment from our source um that that wasn’t real and and you know we have to

um and of course it’s always a kind of really looking and at and feeling the reactivity that we have the

emotions that come up as a result of our fear our Panic our our dread our um

worry about the future our obsession with trying to reconcile or reckon with

the past um the ways in which we we are you know constantly

um constantly engaged with those kinds of thoughts and feelings and how

ultimately beginning to notice what a distraction from the truth they are a

distraction from where where real salvation has always been and that is in

the in the um the right mind or you know which is represented simply by a symbol

which is completely different from the biblical symbol of Jesus or Holy Spirit um those are just also Corrections for

the way that we’ve we’ve thought of them um in the world but that there’s this part of our mind

that holds the memory of wholeness um that we never left and safety that we never left and all you know an all

loving and embracing source and innocence that we share with that source that we’ve never left and so we really

don’t need any salvation from the truth but we need salvation from the lies of the world that we created and so the

idea in this class was really that we’ve been looking at for different sections

um that the course talks very directly in the text or the workbook about salvation in some depth um is really the

whole point of that really was not just to to revisit those sections but really

to in between the classes begin to try to become use that terminology to to

make ourselves more aware of where we’re of how frightened we really are and where we’re placed our um investment in

Salvation what we think will save us from the problem and solve the problem of separation and and then getting

ourselves to catch ourselves and say wait a minute you know in form there may be something that I need to do here but

if I’m not doing it with you know if I’m not using it toward my purpose of

healing My Mind through this new kind of of process of forgiveness of seeing that

that you know that that I’m not really that all of this emotional turmoil is not really

caused by the external world but by a choice that I’m making in the mind for the belief in punishment if I don’t do

it with that um purpose and goal in mind then nothing here will ever satis will

ever save me you know nothing can solve the problems that I’m experiencing because it’s not my it’s not the actual

problems that are the problem it’s it’s my um my belief that they are all I am

and that if I don’t if I as a person as a this false self don’t solve them which

most of the time you know I mean we we never really solve them completely um

you know all peace will only come sorry it got really hot in here it’s been snowing

all day but um but if we don’t solve them at the level um you know where the

problem really lies then then we can’t possibly experience peace no matter what kinds of of you know temporary solutions

we might find in the dream for whatever the problem seems to be that’s arising you know throughout our days and moments

and you know the world was made as a problem generator to keep us mindless so we’re not we can’t really expect that

our our life will not be constantly seeming to Dish up a lot of of of

challenges for us but um but we can learn a different way of responding to

them and responding to ourselves and others that brings and you know that that

involves indirectly returning to our our right mind that quiet center of the Mind

our inner teacher that will yield peace no matter what kind of turmoil is going

on you know the course talks about that quiet Center that stately calm within

that is um the coarses way of of referring to the piece that is really

within us that we can choose um and there’s different you know different spiritualities have different ways of

getting to that piece but the course’s way is to notice how we throw it away

and where we put um you know how we we try to feel the lack that we feel over

the belief that we are um sinful and um you know guilty and and

vulnerable as a result um you know that that is really the belief that needs correcting and um there’s a part of our

mind that is always quiet and doesn’t join with that belief that we can learn to join with rather than trying to drag

that awareness that loving awareness into the dream which it has no place in

the dream because it doesn’t believe in the dream so um we can’t have peace in this world and if we just look around I

think um and pay any attention whatsoever that should be evident it’s not just our Collective

world it’s in our lives too I mean we are seeing an outside picture of an inner condition for the idea of duality

of One Versus the other that you know that for me to win to survive to be be

less guilty I have to portray everyone else as the enemy I mean we’re all doing that

so anyway I went on and on no excellent everything you said was right on as

usual yes it was very very helpful and lucid and and coherent because that’s yeah those are

you know s points because you know we just need to keep looking at um like you

say the way that we try to fix the dream and think that that’s going to be our salvation and that’s going to be the

solution to all the problems that we seem to be set us and and yet at some deep level we we know that that um like

you say from that quiet Center there’s an awareness that says you know knock yourself out do whatever you think you

need to do in the world but the only way you’re really going to find true peace you know sustainable consistent un

unyielding uny un you know immutable piece is in the mind and particularly in

the decision-making part of the mind that choose can choose against and and constantly choosing between the ego and

the Holy Spirit and by choosing against the ego even if we don’t know really what the opposite is just yet but if I

can choose what as a placeholder we we call Holy Spirit um and of course um if

I can choose the opposite of the ego um then if I discover I have more peace

consistently right right and that that loving presence in our mind that symbol

that um the course talks about of that memory of wholeness that it just holds that that light of Truth for us is you

know there’s it it there’s no me in that so when I join with that there’s no I

you know I don’t see separate interests with anyone I see only our shared interest to find our way home and and

and I see that everybody is fighting that same hard battle you know that I am of trying to somehow relieve this guilt

that we don’t know where it’s coming from this drive that we have to um to be

noticed to be approved of to um you know be told that we’re okay um to to make to

make others lesser than um to portray ourselves as as you know the The Good

the good and someone else has the bad um that that that instinct which is a very

human sort of instinct that’s based seems to be in our world based on you

know programmed and hardwired into our DNA as a survival mechanism is just it’s

just misplaced there’s nothing really um you know that that loving presence in our mind when we do join with that and

have a shift of some sort which can present in whatever way way that would

be meaningful to us there would be no sense of my need I would be defenseless

I would be seeing only Through The Eyes of kindness which would embrace the suffering of all um all that that seem

to find themselves here and are fighting for their survival too and you know with with usually not very positive results

you know it it doesn’t really work and often really horrific results um so so

yeah I mean it’s we have that available to us and this is that’s why this is really more than anything although it’s

a study and it’s a metaphysical um you know it takes a lot of of work

intellectually to to metaphysically understand what the course is saying it’s it’s written at a high intellectual

U metaphysical level it’s the practice of this day in and day out the trying to

apply what it’s saying that brings the humility and the um um you know the deepening exposure of our vulnerability

that actually you know seems to bring us deeper into darkness but actually is the

is the um secret portal to try you know to beginning to climb our way back up

the ladder that separations seem to lead us down and to to over time it can seem like a lot

of time you know re gradually release the um the especially in those special

relationships that we think are the real problem you know relationships in our lives the reason that we can’t be

peaceful or always stuck in some way um you know to begin to release that the

the um our allegiance to that story and begin to see that no in fact you know no

one’s really guilty here um this person this situation really doesn’t have the power that I’m giving it to to to

destroy my peace or sense of Innocence it’s it’s it’s a choice that I’m a

mistaken choice that I’m making to defend something that doesn’t need defending and you know it’s it’s doing

that the willingness to do that over and over and over again however difficult

you know to be vigilant with that practice that does over time begin to yield Real Results where we have a

different experience that is not of this world it couldn’t be of this world if it was

genuinely um a you know an experience of our shared interest in finding our way

home that that you know that doesn’t that just releases all the details of my

problems with you yeah you mentioned shared interest a couple times and that’s such a crucial point I remember

in Reading Ken’s commentary on the um the manual for teachers he said that the two themes that are that are wo

interwoven throughout U that that third volume of the of the course is is trusting Holy Spirit and shared interest

and it does seem like the shared it really flip sides of the same idea I think in a lot of ways but but um the

idea of shared interest that the one interest that we all share is wanting peace um right true true sustainable

peace and the only way that that really can happen from the course’s perspective is by relinquishing the separate

identity that we made up and allowing a real identity to be revealed by you know

releasing our identification with an attachment to that fraudulent identity that is a separated one that

that see that seems to have happened but like you’re saying earlier you

know that there’s really nothing in truth that needs salvation but because we believe uh because our minds are so

powerful we believe that we made up uh an insolvable intractable problem that

uh you know the world just is really a representative mirroring of uh that

apparent problem but in in truth it’s really just a choice in the mind that we

can undo and I was I was thinking about this topic this morning I was thinking you know one line that just is sort of a

Zinger that uh is almost a coar cliche is the secret of Salvation is that I’m

doing this to myself you know which kind of hearkens back to lesson five is like I’m never upset for the reason I think

because I’m making up a fraudulent identity and if you know a costume I I

wore my one of my Halloween shirts in honor of the Season you know

but uh today but it’s like well it’s we’re all in costume all the time and we’ve we’ve got this this made up

identity that really is even that identity isn’t the problem it’s our choice for believing in that identity

that’s the problem trying to defend that ident and you know you were saying that we all want peace we all share that

and that’s true but we also all want to throw it away right mind is you

know our mind is split and that’s and that’s it’s being able to step

back to the Mind willing to step back to the mind in often you know the course says

sometimes you know perhaps you come in tears you know really looking at this war within me all the time to both

be kind and to be unkind that that begins to um really open my mind enough

to to Really you know see that I’m choosing I’m choosing this and I’m

choosing it out of fear you know I really believe that this identity is

somehow has to be fought for that it’s all I have and you know then gradually

over time really through that practice of opening to that part of me that

really does that knows all I want is peace then and beginning to trust that

that part of me loves and supports me and is never going to judge me

that that you know that is where the healing really begins to to start and that’s a a process of the you know

that the courses um section the development of trust in the um it talks

about and in the manual and so that is you know where we really begin to um to

heal you know it’s it’s through that process that willingness again and again

and the course tells us that we will keep you know running back into

darkness that our fear is so much deeper than we know and that this is a

path that you know in which we do seem to have to go through the dark clouds of guilt to get to the light and

you know that’s a process it’s not a one-time deal and so and so I think it’s

it’s having that humility and patience and a growing faith that the process

that you know my f one of my favorite quotes from Ken that he um said in an interview that I did with him was you

know to trust the process that has led you this far will not fail you now and I

think of that all the time because um I am believing that it’s going to fail me now and so you know but the answer that

reflects his answer reflected that loving teacher that’s within us that

that reminds us of that that you know as um that it also says in the course in the

second part of the workbook introduction I am so close to you we cannot fail we’re not alone in this we have a part

of our mind that is leading us but we have to want to be led you know if we if

we’re if we’re pulling in the other direction it’s not going to interfere with that because it’ll take however

long it takes you know we’re not in truth this was all settled so you know

it’s however long we want to perpetuate it um is our choice but we learn over

time that it’s a choice for suffering and you know maybe the sooner I change my mind the better for all concerns

including you know the person that I think I am will have a different experience

so yeah as you’re sharing that I was I was reflecting on a a metaphor that uh

had a conversation with Stefan BS who’s another fellow course teacher and studied with

over many years and including Rosco apparently and and he was um suggesting

that you know sometimes when we find ourselves you know fighting the ego it’s sort of like discovering you’re in

mental quicksand and you know what the ego’s response of course is to just thrash

around wildly and it just kind of makes it worse typically but sometimes just allowing yourself to just recognize

where you’re at not not try to escape not try to fix everything

from within that dream is is is oftentimes you know it’s counterintuitive is sort of like you

know turning into the skid on the snow or you know a lot of those things that are counterintuitive you know actually kind of go deeper into a dive when

you’re in a flat in in a spin in an airplane I was one of the things I had to learn and you actually push the nose

down instead of then then up after you get air flowing over the wings but symbolically it’s like we have to you

know get traction with the Holy Spirit first in order to to look at the ego’s

craziness and and be willing to just say okay I’m going to stop trying to solve

it from within the ego thought system which is the thrashing and and just you

know let Let The Quiet Center have a word and then yeah and then then

then you know we see what we’re doing and I see that I’m doing this to myself you know there’s the secret of

Salvation I see that I’m creating all the things that I seem to have

attributed to the cause of my upset which is really just a choice for the wrong thought system right right and it’s really just

a you know recognition that I I can’t do this alone I don’t know the

answer you know the the personal self knows nothing really and to come back to that again and again you know

and again that humility is really the thing you know I can’t manage what you know the

what’s happening I really um don’t know what the right answer is here and um and then and still allowing the and being

gentle with the feelings that are arising which can be as we know you know murderous and or despairing and um you

know just dread and panic and all of those really extreme emotions that

we go through grief um so so but the answer from the course’s perspective is

always the same the Salvation always lies you know you know within the mind um but it’s not

really what we think you know it’s really not saving us from what we think it’s really um it’s really just the

correction for the mistake so yeah earlier this morning I was in an online

group and uh the quote came up that just to me is one of the really another

really potent one is is you have not sinned but you’ve been much mistaken that that correction that you just

mentioned is like you know it’s just a mistake I love how Ken Wapnick always you know

says you like it’s not evil sinful or Wicked it’s just silly you know all the things that we have made into such

huge deals you know big big issues yeah yep should we read through this yes

please you want to start with the first paragraph sure okay this is what is salvation which is the second of the

what is is of the 14 uh opening introductory sections in the second part

of the workbook yeah okay so salvation is a pro promise made by God that you

would find your way to him at last it cannot but be kept well because we never

left and again you know it’s it’s he’s using that terminology Loosely because

we again we don’t have to be saved from anything from you know God knows nothing of this but but the answer is still

there we never left the Oneness joined as one so it salvation guarantees that

time will have an end and all the thoughts that have been born in time will end as

well God’s word is given every mind which thinks that it has separate

thoughts and will replace these thoughts of conflict with the capital T thought of

Peace so you know he’s referring to time it guarantees that time will end and time is just from the corses perspective

is just an invention of of the ego thought system you know um to to act out

all the possible scenarios of what separation might look like all the scripts and it’s not it’s not it’s

really happening all in one second that was instantly corrected but that’s not our experience for us it seems to be

going on and on and on um and you know he he says all thoughts that have been

born in time will end as well and you know born with the idea of time and

really were ended but you know again all those all those scenarios of all the horrible things that were going to

happen over you the you know the time of humankind um or you know even beyond

that because it includes all you know all that is not just not just sentient

beings and God’s word that answer is given every mind which thinks that it you know thought that it had separate

thoughts so every part of a decision-making mind um that that you know mistakenly believed that separation

was real um will will you know return will awaken from that from that dream

will remember to laugh that and you know um at at this very seriously and

mistakenly um taken thought SE that separation could be real and had real

consequences that were dire you know and and which we needed to devote our

seeming lives to protecting ourselves from right yes yes as you’re as you’re

sharing that I was I was thinking how you know it’s it’s guaranteed by God um

that we will return to where we never left uh as well as um by the fact that

in addition we are finding the motivation by by noticing with ever more

mindfulness uh the difference between the outcomes of the two thought systems and and you know of course reminds us

you know our tolerance for pain may be high but it’s not without limit and at some point we will

voluntarily raise our hand to say yes pick me pick me you know well there’s only one of us to pick but uh but um you

know to to to try out the the holy spirit’s thought system because the egos just has been so abysmally poor in fact

has a zero percentage track record and I love that phrase that I I think you

might have borrowed from Dr Phil of you know how’s that working out for you and I think I think that’s just I know I started that a long long time ago so

well anyway someone told me that might have been from him but but I know I I heard you use it and not too many not

too long ago a number of occasions and I think it’s really helpful let’s just if we can just kind of ask ourselves well

how’s how is what I’m trying to do on my own working out well never really very right right

exactly pretty pretty poorly so so if I can you know even consider the idea of

being happy instead of right um that that’s progress right absolutely y

should I read the second one sure okay the thought of Peace was given to God’s son the instant that his mind had a

thought of War there was no need for such a thought before for peace was given without opposite and merely was

but when the mind is split there is a need of healing so the thought that has the power to heal the split became a

part of every fragment of the mind that still was one but failed to recognize

its Oneness now it did not know itself and thought its own identity was lost

wow uh and thinking about this I I’m flashing back to something that I heard on a program called the bioneers oh gosh

a decade or two ago um that was talking about how someone had uh was trying to

figure out a solution to the problem of chainsaw oil polluting ground soils and

that sort of thing out in out in the woods whatnot and they figured out that there’s a Spore that would um in a very

benign fashion eat up any of the the the toxic elements of the the chainsaw oil

that could actually be put into the chainsaw mix so that every little droplet however big or small that that

splattered out from the the chain would also have the solution to the problem if

you will in each little micro droplet and I was thinking well that’s that’s kind of not kind of a not you know too

bad metaphor for how holy spirit is in every seeming fragment and we can’t

separate out the solution from the problem um because

intrinsic in the alleged problem is the the real solution which is that nothing happened right each one of our seemingly

separate Minds has that capacity to to awaken from the dream we imposed on

ourselves right and we we all share you know we all are part of the decision-making mind we seem to be

discreet you know fragments of that but but in truth we’re um you

know every choice every part every fragment of the decision-making mind

also has the the right wrong mind and a right mind and so um so you know the

answer is within all minds and you know the course is the the word mind is is

the word that the course uses some other um spiritualities might use heart or you

know but it’s it refers to that Universal um shared conscious Consciousness is not a word the course

uses in that way either but but um you know that that shared perception healed

perception and so we all share that it’s all it’s available to all of us and all of us will eventually choose in that

direction whether we choose the course to get us to that awareness or some other path that you know because all

paths in the course is clear about that that it’s just one of thousands of of um

the universal course which is you know leads back to that Oneness joint as one of of our

complete um shared innocence that just never was was divided in any way or

tampered with or um contaminated or you know however you want to put it right yep so indivisible indivisible right

yeah yeah yep which is very reassuring when you look at all that’s going on you

know again appearan is lie and and it’s good to if that’s all you can in the moment remind yourself of is you know

this is not all I am this is all Everything Is Not What It Seems um and

you know the of course has a whole cosmology for for for you know how we

seem to have have gotten ourselves into this mess but um but you know we don’t

need to always think about that we you know we just need to remind ourselves that there’s a part of me that um thinks

otherwise and and you know looks on this um from a all loving um all heal healing

and all forgiven perspective that can that is available to me even right now you know to join with and or and really

that just means recognizing how how how far I’ve strayed from that and how much

I would like to return to it when my fear subsides you know we can’t really muscle our way back but to just just

recognize the answer is there and it will I will choose it when I you know if I if I don’t fight myself too much and

just continue to to look and recognize that this is a mistaken choice that I’m making yep yep when you said musling our

way back I was thinking about the quicksand metaphor again like if I’m if I’m trying to on my own efforts thrash

around and and get out of the quicksand uh usually you need someone to throw you

a rope metaphorically you know right and then in this case the courses metaphor would be holy spirit’s uh thought system

is is really the only way we’re going to get out of it that’s and that’s by being you know being willing to see the shared

interest by willing to see that uh we’re all in the same boat and um um or

quicksand or whatever right and that that it’s it’s actually a mistaken

perspective mistaken uh uh view of things um but we have to stop long

enough to just calmly assess that oh I did this to myself I I I walked into

this dream and with with help I can I can awaken from

it yep we might not always be calm but we can no no but recognizing I’m here to point

out because I’m usually not when I’m oh no no that that’s that’s such an important Point too yeah I mean initially it’s we’re anything but calm

it’s usually like you know some some some degree of Panic or or depression or

or reaction anger or grief or you know all all the different you know the gamut of yeah of anything but peace uh that’s

in the ego’s vast repertoire of unhappy feelings and thoughts or defense yeah

yeah yeah okay so salvation is undoing in the sense that it does nothing

failing to support the world of dreams and Malice and that’s that you know idea that the miracle merely looks and waits

and judges not or looks on Devastation and reminds the mind that what it sees is false right thus it lets Illusions go

by not supporting them it merely lets them quietly go down to dust to that nothingness from which they came and

what they HIIT is now revealed an altar to the holy name of God where whereon

his word is written with the gifts of your forgiveness laid before it and the memory of God not far

behind so you know and what they hid is now revealed an altar a reflection of

that that Oneness joined as one you know the altar is usually a symbol of the mind for the course so to the holy name

of God and the name of God just being that Oneness joint as one you know of of of our Eternal wholeness whereon his

word is written with the gifts of your forgiveness laid before it and the

memory of God not far behind and the memory of God you know God in the in the course is really just that completely

unconditional Universal all-encompassing love it’s not it’s not a person it’s not

a you know a dualistic um punishing um you know judge that

you know that we seem to have made made it into in the world it’s not it’s not anything like that it’s it’s just the

shared um truth of of what we are as as as love an abstract undifferentiated

Union with with complete innocence that we can’t really understand from this

perspective but is certainly not the god that we’ve been presented with in in the world which in which on whose behalf

what you know Holy Wars are waged and and both in our personal lives and um

and collectively so you know it it sees it sees everyone as Innocents every

everyone is as um fighting the same hard battle to try to to try to find their

way back to to the awareness of of their loving and completely forgiven

self right so yeah I thinking about all the

different Wars uh um the other day we were talking about war and and someone

was saying well like the war that’s that’s going on and I I said which

one and and I mean it’s like it’s it’s crazy but but in a sense there’s eight

billion give you know now I think it’s gone over eight billion people on the planet but there’s eight billion human

Wars just alone if you think of that you know we made this world as an attack on

God from the one of those seemingly outrageous statements in the course but but you know by default that’s kind of

how we use the world or really AB abuse or misuse each other and each other of

course and everyone in it because because we’re all basically can trying to cannibalize what is the the not self

to to support the the little us self that we made up and um you know it’s

doomed to abysmal failure but uh uh on the level of form it it’s there’s no

solution but on the level of mind um if I’m if I realize I’m doing this to myself by choosing the thought system of

differences and and Duality and there’s another choice and recognize that that other

choice is where that quiet Center is and it’s like oh that’s that’s very

reinforcing when we actually choose it isn’t it yes and and you know I mean we

are always duking this out in our in our kitchens in our boardrooms in our um you

know on our street on our battlefields um in in you know in every organization

in every nationality and and and we’re all all doing that but we um so so it’s

it’s only when we make that decision to join you know to to get my choice for

that this unconscious choice of mine to keep trying to solve the problem where

it isn’t to get that out of the way and stand back and and you know open to that

that healed perspective in the mind at which point if there’s anything that would be helpful of course it’s not

against action but but it is against action that is is pitted in the the um

the ego thought system of one or the other so you know to not be identified with with the with with one side or the

other but to to Really you even though I may have an opinion to to step forth and

try to be helpful is fine but but I but but believing that I know what is

helpful is not from the course’s perspective you know to really to really make my um purpose be the healing of my

mind and my choice to support a thought system of one or the other and attack

and guilt um and and ask to see both victims and victimizers as the same as

coming from the same you know as fighting the same hard battle and and when I’m to do that then if there would

be anything that would be really helpful it can be done and it will just happen

and and my you know again my investment in it turning out my way or one way or the other will be out of the way and and

and so love I will be truly loving even if I have to you know be in in in be on

the level of behavior making some you know tough boundary sort of decisions and all the things that we actually do

have to do in this world you know so um but I will be taking I will be changing

the purpose to to undoing the guilt in my mind and if that is at the Forefront

of my mind then um then then you know peace follows

eventually um you know I’m getting the the the I’m taking the attack thought

out of the equation and allowing the the loving healing forgiving thought to replace it

right so yeah it’s just it’s a substitution of the sub for the substitution right kind of or just

getting the substitution out of the way and then and then what’s there is is is clear is a clear um you know path to to

to what it actually does mean to be loving unconditionally because we don’t know what that means yeah yeah it does

does seem like it’s easier when we can suspend the condemning thoughts and just ask for

help and we need help to suspend them you know oh yeah see them the course is

more like just recog I’m doing this you know I’m I’m siding with

with um rooting myself more deeply in this this dream of punishment um and

contributing to it and picking sides and waging Wars and it goes nowhere that way lies Madness right so it has to become

from it from a perspective of an intention of healing and an

intention of learning a love not of this world returning to a love and out of this world getting my blocks to that

awareness out of the way right and it’s always my my mind in need of healing in

terms of the course it’s not it’s if I’m thinking that it’s anybody else that needs healing in this situation whatever

it is collective or personal then I’m already um you know deep into the the

thought thought the guilt of Separation right and no good can come of

that climb in the wrong ladder out of the quicksand or down into

the exactly right should I read the fourth one sure yeah okay let us come

daily to this holy place and spend a while together here we share our final dream it is a dream in which there is no

sorrow for it holds a hint of all the glory given us by God the grass is pushing through the soil the trees are

budding now and birds have come to live within their branches Earth is being born again in New Perspective night is

gone and we have come together in the light well some lovely lovely metaphors at the end of that parag Y and and

they’re all symbolic of of just the the light um you know Dawning on our minds

that was already there right this last week oh go ahead no I just like once we removed the

barriers once we we were willing to walk through the dark clouds then that you know the light is just there waiting

it’s just been Obed by our belief in it exactly yeah yeah I’m sorry go ahead I

was just gonna say I I’ve been doing an exercise that was suggested a week or so ago about just kind of noticing the the

spark that the course talks about in in everyone that we meet or think about and

and when I remember to do it it’s like oh yeah that’s right I it’s the seeing the sameness the same light that’s in

everyone’s mind and and uh because you know that sparkk is really

what the course would say ultimately is is the great rays but even if I can just remember that that little trigger that

little spark that says oh that’s right none of us have left our source none of

us have left that that perfect uh connection with with Creator

and with with each other because it’s a pure non-u course it’s just trying to remind us that that even the language we

use as well as the world that we made is intrinsically dualistic but we can give it a different Purpose with Le spirit’s

help right and really you know we may not always be able to see the spark of

light in someone but we can hear my call we can learn to hear our own call for love in them you know that same that

same fear that same um desperation that we feel to be right to be um you know to

be less guilty to to be accepted to be approved of you know that if we’re

really become becoming more allowing and tender with ourselves about that and and

you know um less judgmental then then I think we begin to see it more and more

in others and and realize that it is really the same and you know that I

think once we we I we kind of identify with that then it’s very difficult for

us to keep going in the direction of attacking um it’s it’s it’s you know we see the we see the the frightened child

within everyone and that lesson 18 182 talks about it’s you know walking around

believing that they can never find their way home or be absolved from this horrible um guilt that they’re the

burden of that and and so you know are just desperate to be accepted and um and

told that it’s going to be okay you know that they that in fact still loved and they’re still welcome home and so you

know yeah I think it’s it’s but that starts with being really attentive to

our own pain you know and it’s not a step that you can skip which I think a lot of people try to and and it it just

covers it over more and you know if we cover it over more or deny it it’s just going to keep projecting and we won’t be

aware of it and we’ll think we’re really spiritually evolved and that that doesn’t usually

have good consequences either so yeah anyway when we talk about lesson 182 and

and the The Nostalgia for the the home that we never really truly left it reminded me of uh this past week my wife

and I went to go see a rock concert in Tucson Steve Steve Miller ban and Dave Mason and both both of them did a great

job one of the lyrics of one of the songs they sang and known for was can’t find my way home you know and and that’s

I was thinking well that’s as I was listening to the music and then reflecting on it just now I was thinking well that’s everyone problem we we think

that we burn the bridge to the peace that you know we really want and uh you

know we think we’re just you know hope hopeless case but but

uh you know of course reminds us the ego may be foolproof but it’s not God prooof

and and that spark really is in everyone that that that uh often like you say

often time takes the form of being willing to to notice oh that call for for love call for help is really

everyone I feel yeah y all right is it my turn I think

so from here we we give salvation to the world so from from here in you know the

right mind right with we’ve joined with that with that loving presence in the mind that all innocent presence from

here we give salvation to the world for it is here salvation was received the song of our rejoicing is the call to all

the world that freedom is returned that time is almost

over and God’s son has but an instant more to wait until his father is

remembered dreams are gone eternity has shined away the world and Only Heaven

now exists at all and Only Heaven of all-inclusive you know innocence right

and um and Redemption is is experienced

you know is remembered and the course sort of implies and says in a few places

um you know that that we have no idea you know what what what what it’s going

to be you know we will we will smile at all of this because it was such a um

Distortion of what of what we were and such a silly um you know although seemingly

long and and um you know very difficult Journey that that really had had no

distance and you know from and from a place that we never really left back to

a place we never really left so and we’re all such good character actors we’ve gotten so identified with our

roles and our our yearr round Halloween costumes that uh yeah we don’t even

suspect that it’s a costume that it’s aad or a mask yeah right and the course

is really getting us that’s the purpose of the course is to begin to question this you know why is this and and deep

within us all I think there’s that we’ve always questioned it there’s always been

a little something but we learn very quickly um and are socialized very quickly to stop asking questions to just

accept it to buy in and and of course we wouldn’t have it’s not it’s not because other people are making us buy in we

wouldn’t have come here if we didn’t want to buy in we had already bought in to the to the to this experiment and

individuality and we wanted to go for it and see if we could make it work out right and it takes of course also

implies although it doesn’t preclude you you from practicing the course if if if

if you don’t believe in reincarnation but it strongly implies you know in many places throughout the course that um we

probably do this many many many lives before you know maybe thousands we don’t know um until we finally say you know

there has to be a better way right and you know I want to find I want to find a

um a a way to really genuinely feel loved and loving and I never really have

you know my way never really gives me that so and everybody is feeling is

feeling that La you know feeling that Devastation so yeah we’re all we’ve all

subscribed to the ego’s um U momentto moment bulletin

um it’s unlike email bulletins that you get once a month or once a week or whatever sometimes those text you get

that you didn’t know you signed up for exactly exactly but but uh the the the fine print on the bottom of every every

ego message is you you subscribe to the ego channel on on eight Bill billion

years ago on this me website metaphoric website in your mind you know that the

the decision for Duality kind of thing and but but they the the click here to unsubscribe is is is seems to be hidden

but is there if we look for it and I think that’s the what forgiveness is right yeah yeah yeah that’s the secret

of Salvation is oh yeah I’m doing this to myself I keep subscribing to this this same thing over and over I keep

doing this good that’s really thanks for

sharing another hour or so Susan with with me on this excellent topic that’s

so helpful and thank you and look forward to the next conversation me too

have a good Halloween likewise